Log from #Classroom on Saturday, April 27, 2013 at 7PM EDT: “Improved Shielding”, hosted by TashRikil:
[19:00:52] <TashRikil> tonight’s class is on intermediate shielding
[19:00:53] <Zephyr> hi
[19:01:12] <Keltia> hi
[19:01:21] <TashRikil> because i want you guys to be better than the stuff sylar used to teach.
[19:01:54] <simica> Lawl
[19:02:23] <TashRikil> i’m honest about my motives. LP
[19:02:24] <TashRikil> 😛
[19:02:25] <E[X]ILED> Sylar has gone missing. For a long time
[19:02:31] <Alathan> lol
[19:02:32] <DragonAtma> tash: true
[19:02:39] <DragonAtma> and yes, he has
[19:02:42] <TashRikil> i know. and yet, the last class we had on shielding used his basic methods.
[19:02:53] <simica> If people are still atuck there from hownlong ago…wow
[19:02:53] <TashRikil> mmkay. so. someone tell me what a shield is.
[19:03:27] <DragonAtma> an energy barrier around you to protect you from attacks and other problems
[19:03:49] <TashRikil> anyone else?
[19:03:58] <E[X]ILED> Tash. Old classes are where?
[19:04:02] <Alathan> sheilding is a barrier or net that is formed in either directional or dynamic locations in the form of energy or matter
[19:04:24] <TashRikil> on the forum, E[X]ILED
[19:04:57] <E[X]ILED> Can you post link. I know some might not know where to find them
[19:05:14] <TashRikil> we’ll deal with that after class.
[19:05:26] <E[X]ILED> Sorry and thank you.
[19:05:55] <TashRikil> both of you are right, in your ways. DragonAtma is almost perfect, but i would add to protect you from attacks and other external problems.
[19:06:05] <Baltazaar> shield, in the traditional sense, is a collection of energy polarized in a way so that i5t should be able to divert, absorb, or block unwanted energy
[19:06:52] <jtbill> i have a question on that definition
[19:07:07] <TashRikil> yes?
[19:07:43] <jtbill> what if its in the shield’s design or nature to just not absorb, but negate an attack, making it never have existed, is that still a shield?
[19:07:56] <TashRikil> yes.
[19:08:11] <Zephyr> my shield also has an illusory function
[19:08:19] <Zephyr> makes me hard to see/sense
[19:08:27] <Zephyr> or makes it look like I’m somewhere I’m not
[19:08:28] <TashRikil> whatever your shield does to protect you from harm, by whatever method, it is still a shield.
[19:09:17] <TashRikil> consider this. everything we make energetically comes from us. from ourselves, our own minds. knowing this, what goes into making a shield?
[19:09:21] <jtbill> are questions to be asked as soon as they go into my head?
[19:09:38] <simica> Intent and will
[19:09:40] <TashRikil> sure. why not.
[19:09:56] <Baltazaar> Tash, with that in mind, does pre-emptivre attacking count as shielding too?
[19:10:00] <jtbill> what if instead of a shield i made myself, what if its a seal?
[19:10:07] <TashRikil> Baltazaar, no.
[19:10:26] <jtbill> a seal made to absorb offensive attacks
[19:10:34] <TashRikil> then you are protecting yourself with seals, not shields.
[19:10:37] <Baltazaar> but if I do it hard enough, it has prevented the other person from attacking me;-3
[19:11:01] <Baltazaar> thereby fitting under your def9inition of shield
[19:11:09] <E[X]ILED> Seals are much more complicated too.
[19:11:10] <TashRikil> okay guys. i’m really going to get annoyed if you try to split hairs on me tonight. in spite of the fact that i am trying to split hairs with you anyways. 😛
[19:11:12] <jtbill> energy goes into make a shield, but, in my case i add elemental nature to it
[19:11:37] <Baltazaar> kk, I am set to continue
[19:12:37] <TashRikil> a shield is a defensive construct designed to protect the energy body from external damage. attacking first is simply attacking first, it is not a shield. a seal, or a ward, designed to absorb damage is also doing duty as a shield to the extent it protects your energy body from external damage.
[19:13:18] <TashRikil> what goes into a shield? intent and will, sure. but that’s about as vague as you can get. give me specifics.
[19:13:52] <simica> I wont give details on it lol
[19:13:57] <jtbill> should i give answers following my paradigm?
[19:13:58] <DragonAtma> energy XD
[19:14:11] <Alathan> and design
[19:14:15] <Baltazaar> at the very least an idea of what should not pass/be blocked /be deflected
[19:14:19] <TashRikil> yes you should, jtbill and boot to the head, atma.
[19:14:42] <jtbill> energy, shape, and to increase effectiveness elemental power
[19:14:59] <TashRikil> not bad, Baltazaar, for one who does not shield much. HOWEVER, it’s rather the reverse, everything is out except for what you allow in.
[19:15:08] <DragonAtma> but seriously, you need to decide what you’ll allow through and what you won’t. Both ways.
[19:15:12] <TashRikil> what you are describing would be more of a filter than a shield.
[19:15:43] <jtbill> in the filter section you did say there was a filter-shield hybrid though, or is that going to be talked about later on
[19:15:48] <DragonAtma> You also need to deicde whether to absorb the incoming energy, deflect it, simply stop it, etc.
[19:16:15] <TashRikil> yes. there is in fact a lot that goes into a shield.
[19:17:03] <TashRikil> you need to decide permeability, and deciding which element to make it out of decides a lot of the permeability for you depending on your preferences and prejudices.
[19:17:27] <TashRikil> you need to decide how to disperse the energy the shield collects when it is attacked
[19:18:05] <TashRikil> if you want any staying power at all, you need to decide how to rebuild its energies when attacked
[19:19:22] <TashRikil> and finally, you need to decide the effect it will have on things that touch it.
[19:20:15] <TashRikil> so you can see the ideas slung around before, marshmallow, bubble, mirror, tower… they all are solid images in the mind, but they have a lot of these things preset already.
[19:20:20] <jtbill> wouldn’t the element added bring the effect?
[19:21:23] <TashRikil> if you view the world through an elemental perspective it would determine a lot of permeability and touch effects without even thinking about it. and that is what is dangerous about making shields of commonly known elements, etc. people know what will defeat them
[19:22:42] <TashRikil> the goal of making a shield properly is not to incorporate all elements. that is like a prismatic sphere in D&D, and just like the spell, the right combination lock of spells hurled at it will break it.
[19:23:26] <jtbill> even if, as an example, an insane hot fire lighting everything on fire, but the user, burning it to nothing?
[19:23:29] <TashRikil> the goal of creating a proper shield is to think about it, intensely, right at the beginning. know what it will let through and what it will not.
[19:24:00] <TashRikil> if i were to see someone using such a fire shield with me, i would create an ocean and hurl you into it. and watch you drown.
[19:24:18] <TashRikil> do you understand, jtbill?
[19:24:45] <jtbill> ya, either i make the shield different, or i learn to switch elements very very quickly
[19:24:50] <E[X]ILED> Ha
[19:24:58] <jtbill> and learn to swim in energy
[19:25:32] <TashRikil> no. you make the shield different. period. it can shift if it needs to, but that takes a lot of energy and it will wipe you out faster than an eraser on a chalkboard.
[19:25:56] <Alathan> kinda like turning the water to ice before it reaches you?
[19:26:44] <TashRikil> something like that. but this happens at the speed of thought, literally. if you are fighting a good scanner, they can see any obvious weaknesses and crush you before you know it’s happening/
[19:26:57] <E[X]ILED> Tash. You know shields can have multiple layers. What’s to say he can’t make a layer a different element? Thus preventing a surprise atttack?
[19:27:25] <Baltazaar> so, the hint would be to have an element of surprise in your shields?
[19:27:29] <TashRikil> he absolutely can. but the first layer is skinned off. as well as anything made of lightning, i might add.
[19:27:45] <E[X]ILED> True.
[19:27:48] <DragonAtma> And that’ll leave one less layer remaining.
[19:28:00] <TashRikil> the point is not to use elements. the point is to think of fundamentals which do not carry prejudice. decide on your own prejudices and make a superior shield.
[19:28:17] <E[X]ILED> I know. Just sparking interesnt into those that aren’t too familiar.
[19:28:39] <Alathan> modulating all the elements into one layer and stacking could be more effective if you shift the timing of each of the elements
[19:29:03] <TashRikil> the most fundamental piece of any shield is that it makes you feel safe. if you can find a method by which you feel completely safe, which nothing can violate, that will be your best shield.
[19:29:12] <DragonAtma> the Prismatic Sphere spell tash mentioned earleir had seven layers; cast the right spell, and the otuermost layer is gone for good.
[19:29:46] * Baltazaar would be able to tear a hole in that, but prefers not to
[19:30:12] <E[X]ILED> Prismatic sphere?
[19:30:33] <TashRikil> i thought everyone here played D&D at some point.
[19:30:41] <Baltazaar> ravenloft
[19:30:53] <Baltazaar> 3 years
[19:30:54] <DragonAtma> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticWall.htm
[19:30:56] <Baltazaar> exclusively
[19:31:03] <DragonAtma> (prismatic sphere is the same, but… spherical)
[19:31:10] * TashRikil nods
[19:31:16] <DragonAtma> …and a level higher.
[19:31:55] <E[X]ILED> Nope. Never played before
[19:32:21] <TashRikil> elemental shielding like it is being described here has some similarities to a role playing game
[19:33:06] <jtbill> would it be more advantageous if the shield was created in an instant, not letting the enemy be able to observe the components?
[19:33:55] <E[X]ILED> That’s why you cloak yourself.
[19:34:07] <TashRikil> instead of picking a fire shield, a water shield, etc, try thinking about what that really means on the shield. water will let certain things through. fire will let other things through. each can be defeated pretty solidly by it’s opposite element. attacks come in like a speed dial gatling gun sometimes, and shields with obvious weaknesses are toast.
[19:34:41] <jtbill> i know tash, im not fighting for the use, im just thinking in general
[19:34:58] <jtbill> if i used a plain one, no element
[19:35:36] <TashRikil> it’s definitely to your advantage to not let your opponent see what makes up your shield very well.
[19:35:46] <TashRikil> bear in mind that you could very well be spam attacked
[19:35:51] <DragonAtma> mmhmm
[19:36:21] <jtbill> i have a feeling i know the answer, but…..does attacking drain the user more or defending?
[19:36:23] <TashRikil> someone could easily chuck all four elements at your shield continuously and alternating for a couple minutes to see what cracks they can open in your defenses. and if that is all you have…
[19:37:02] <TashRikil> it depends. the best and lowest energy defense is not being there. getting out of the way of a blow is easier than landing one
[19:37:49] <DragonAtma> jt: depends on the type of atatck and defense
[19:37:50] <TashRikil> which is why spam attacks, area of effects, bullet hells dont generally work too well.
[19:38:12] <DragonAtma> but I can easily see the attacker using up energy to make a psiball… which may be absorbed by the shield and the energy transferred to the one it’s defending.
[19:38:51] <TashRikil> absolutely, atma. however.
[19:39:19] <TashRikil> what a really devious opponent will do is create that psiball so that it will be absorbed and affect the opponent’s defenses.
[19:39:37] <TashRikil> the psiball AFTER that one is the one you need to worry about
[19:39:41] * DragonAtma nods
[19:39:49] <jtbill> i know it has been talked about a lot, but, can you cloak a shield, and can a cloaking be removed forcefully?
[19:40:12] <TashRikil> yes and yes
[19:40:12] <DragonAtma> yes, yes.
[19:40:23] <Alathan> a cloak is just another layer of sheilding
[19:40:42] <TashRikil> cloaking needs to go on the outside of any shield, mostly because a lot of defensive energy glows like a beacon and needs to be muted
[19:40:52] <DragonAtma> Althoguh removing a cloak generally requires some way of finding them (you can’t exactly shoot anti-cloaking beams over the entire milky way).
[19:41:24] <TashRikil> something designed to make you invisible is not terribly good at absorbing damage though. hit it enough times and it will crack like any other shield layer
[19:41:25] <Alathan> all it is doing is sheilding one of any number of sences being detectable
[19:41:41] <DragonAtma> (well you can, but even sub-sub-sub-feeble cloaks would be unaffected)
[19:42:26] <Baltazaar> well… how can you learn where to cloak? or is cloaking an other form of shield (cloak-shield?))
[19:43:05] <TashRikil> cloaking is a specialized art form. this class is not about cloaking. though if you already know how to do it, it’s very useful in your shield layer
[19:43:16] <Baltazaar> kk.
[19:43:22] <DragonAtma> After class, you can ask the Tashmeister
[19:43:31] <DragonAtma> And who knwos? Maybe he’ll teach cloaking next class.
[19:43:35] <TashRikil> no he cant because i will be VERY burned out.
[19:43:39] <Little_Dragon> wouldn’t even the best cloaks be thwarted by starting a scan at the body and looking for the connection between the shields and the person and then following it to the shields?
[19:43:44] <DragonAtma> Ah.
[19:44:10] <DragonAtma> …with the best cloaks, you ahve to find the body before you can start it.
[19:44:12] <TashRikil> many cloaks are thwarted in that way. but again, this class is not about cloaking
[19:44:49] <Little_Dragon> After all, physical bodies when scanned starting at the physical level can not be hidden so well.
[19:44:50] <DragonAtma> If you’re searching all over new york for me but I’m in tau ceti, it’ll be some time before you can even begin!
[19:44:56] <TashRikil> the goal of a shield is to keep things out
[19:45:13] <jtbill> what i was talking about is not cloaking the individual, but just the shield
[19:45:43] <jtbill> a low profile is an easy way to not be seen
[19:45:44] <TashRikil> shields must be cloaked if you expect cloaking to work, yes.
[19:46:00] <jtbill> but, what i read, may have misinterpreted, but doesn’t that cloak yourself
[19:46:15] <TashRikil> the goal of shieldmaking is to make a shield very carefully in your mind the first couple times.
[19:46:23] <DragonAtma> it cloaks the shield and everything inside it
[19:46:41] <TashRikil> but then, when you become used to it, to not have to think about it anymore, so it doesnt drain a lot of energy
[19:47:28] <Little_Dragon> Hmmm…perhaps an illusiory trigger in a shield that makes the opponent alone perceive more damage that he is doing and makes him think he won…would that be a good or bad way to make him lower his guard and reduce attacks?
[19:47:37] <TashRikil> you can incorporate filters, and shield layers, as discussed in the previous class, in the same way. and you can switch up where the shields and filters appear in the layers, if one setting doesnt seem to be working well
[19:48:05] <TashRikil> Little_Dragon, that is a very effective illusion. i suggest you use it.
[19:48:54] <TashRikil> if you can get your opponent to doubt his perceptions of reality, then he can no longer attack you effectivelyu
[19:48:55] <Little_Dragon> Perhaps once I get good enough for it to remain an illusion only 😛
[19:49:38] <Little_Dragon> “back to reality, whoops, there goes gravity”
[19:49:42] <Little_Dragon> (had to)
[19:49:48] <TashRikil> really good shields tend to involve a whole range of psychological misdirection, hard outer layers, and consequences for those that attack them.
[19:50:40] <Little_Dragon> ah, like having a multiplying virus between two shield layers that once broken goes to attack the attacker?
[19:50:43] <jtbill> two scenarios
[19:50:54] <TashRikil> something like that.
[19:51:41] <Little_Dragon> any other ideas for consequences?
[19:51:44] <jtbill> i know this one will take a lot of energy to do, but, what about a living shield? that is able form to take a blow better, and to change its makeup
[19:52:09] <TashRikil> always knowing what is in your shield, what can break every specific layer, and how to repair it when broken is of the utmost importance. you should know these things so well that you dont even need to think about them in a fight
[19:52:36] <DragonAtma> programming in your shield is certainly doable
[19:53:00] <DragonAtma> having a sentient shield is also doable, but do you want to risk havign your shield decide it doesn’t like you and start letting attacks through?
[19:53:04] <TashRikil> you can select what to turn on and what to turn off, if this is a priority
[19:54:07] <Baltazaar> sentient shield sounds a bit like “operation meatshield”
[19:54:10] <jtbill> atma, that made me laugh abit, mostly because i just resaw a movie where a computer did that
[19:54:35] <jtbill> and, tash, shields can let things through right?
[19:54:38] <DragonAtma> then you know what the risks are
[19:54:44] <TashRikil> what you will realize very quickly is that there is no such thing as shielding for dummies.
[19:54:45] <DragonAtma> jt: of course
[19:54:52] <Little_Dragon> “You guys will be part of Operation Human Shield” XD
[19:55:00] <TashRikil> yes jtbill. otherwise your attacks would never get through
[19:55:20] * Baltazaar offers a southpark-five to little dragon
[19:55:40] <jtbill> two layers, the inner one the main one, and the outer one, the inner one blocks most, and the outer one blocks the weaknesses to the inner shield
[19:56:34] <Little_Dragon> wouldn’t the outer one, being weaker, be destroyed more easily?
[19:57:15] <jtbill> lets through freely, maybe absorbing some of the energy, so the inner shield can take the rest
[19:57:33] <jtbill> the outer isn’t doing anything but a pre-emptive gate
[19:57:40] <jtbill> its customs ._.
[19:57:55] <Little_Dragon> and what is to stop people from stepping around said gate?
[19:58:16] <Baltazaar> revolving shields with holes.
[19:58:26] <DragonAtma> jt: that’s doable, but what happens when someone takes doiwn the outer part?
[19:58:50] <TashRikil> i see you guys are beginning to think in the right way. i will call class here
Posted By: Adara, Head Manager/Head Operator
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