Log from #Classroom on Sunday, June 9, 2013 at 9PM EDT: “Astral Projection and OOBE’s”, hosted by Jonn:
[21:10:05] <Jonn> Okay, astral projection and OBEs
[21:10:24] <Jonn> Who of you has experience with Astral Projection?
[21:10:30] * sh1nji listens intensely
[21:10:32] <sh1nji> i havnt
[21:10:44] <jtbill> not knowingly
[21:10:48] <Jonn> Interesting.
[21:10:56] <Jonn> Momo?
[21:10:57] <sh1nji> well maybe once….. but it might have been a dream..
[21:11:11] * sh1nji doesnt know
[21:11:27] <DragonAtma> I once managed to go partially-astral (just an arm); I was very sleepy, it lasted for all of two seconds, and I haven’t been able to repeat it despite many tries.
[21:11:44] <Momo> I have had some OBE . I can rarely feel another body outside my own, but not in great amounts, half in half out usually. And I mental project regularly.
[21:12:05] <Jonn> Fun fun.
[21:12:18] <Jonn> So, who here has had an OBE?
[21:12:18] <sh1nji> oh and OBE”S? iv had one of them……
[21:12:49] <sh1nji> >.> was higher then i kite…..on some hardcore shit… and got pulled out for a minute…but that was YEARS AGE
[21:12:49] <jtbill> umm ya
[21:12:50] <jtbill> once
[21:13:03] <sh1nji> ago*
[21:13:19] <Jonn> Alright
[21:13:36] <Jonn> So, I will ask you one by one what you think is an OBE and an Astral Projection.
[21:13:38] <Momo> it was a brief one, might have been a dream, it’s hard to say, since I was trying to lucid dream, but I ended up a few feet away from my body standing around until I realized where I was, but I was out of sight of my physical body, hard to say for sure..
[21:13:53] <Jonn> sh1nji: In your experience, what could be the difference between an AP and OBE?
[21:14:49] <sh1nji> well i havnt AP’ed yet but i think a obe is where the actual soul leaves where projection is where you kinda move your awareness out but never leave your body
[21:15:25] <Jonn> Okay.
[21:15:31] <Jonn> jtbill?
[21:15:36] <Jonn> Same question.
[21:15:53] <Jonn> Dracogriff: If you wish to participate, PM me.
[21:17:12] <jtbill> well, I’m probably wrong, but, AP is willingly and OBE is unwilling, if i have to explain what i mean I’ll try to be more specific
[21:18:21] <Jonn> It is an open discussion. Unless things are completely wrong, they hold some truth. Remember, this field still is somewhat subjective to our experiences.
[21:18:34] <Jonn> Momo: Your turn. Same question.
[21:18:57] <Momo> They’re about the same as far as I can tell.
[21:19:06] <Jonn> Okay.
[21:19:23] <Jonn> DragonAtma: If you are present, same question
[21:20:23] <Jonn> Alright
[21:20:45] <DragonAtma> I don’t think there’s that much of a difference between the two
[21:20:47] <Jonn> First, I will talk about the difference between AP and OBE.
[21:20:53] * sh1nji nods
[21:21:03] <DragonAtma> I guess an OBE could send you somewhere other thna the astral realm, but aside form that…
[21:21:19] <Jonn> Then I will go on by defining what is the astral, based on Robert Bruce’s studies.
[21:21:35] <Jonn> And last, I will talk about OBE.
[21:22:11] <Jonn> Before actually talking about the difference between OBEs and AP, I will define each one. Its better to do that.
[21:22:40] <Jonn> If you have a question, please type “1” and I will answer it in time.
[21:22:50] <Jonn> Is that fine with you guys?
[21:22:55] <jtbill> mhm
[21:22:57] * sh1nji spams the “1” key
[21:23:12] <Jonn> Alright
[21:23:32] <Jonn> Im going to ask something first. Does anyone knows who Robert Bruce is or what he has done?
[21:23:40] <sh1nji> nope
[21:23:47] <sh1nji> but time for google
[21:24:00] <jtbill> nope
[21:24:09] <Momo> no
[21:24:42] <Jonn> Google later.
[21:24:53] <sh1nji> fine…
[21:24:56] <DragonAtma> only if you mean the famish scottish warrior
[21:24:59] <DragonAtma> *famous
[21:25:02] <DragonAtma> and you probably don’t
[21:25:08] <Jonn> Basically, Robert Bruce is well-known for his studies in astral dynamics (also the name of his book)
[21:26:00] <Jonn> He peers articles related to astral dynamics and OBEs
[21:26:25] <Jonn> Also used to participate in a OBE news group.
[21:27:01] <Jonn> So, what I will be explaining is based on my reading on his books and my personal experience.
[21:27:28] <jtbill> okay
[21:27:49] * sh1nji nods
[21:27:51] <Jonn> However, I suggest you to read his book. It is really good.
[21:28:04] <Jonn> The PDF can be found online, I believe.
[21:28:15] * sh1nji searches throught tpb
[21:28:18] <sh1nji> >.>
[21:28:29] <Jonn> Let’s define what the astral is, then.
[21:28:41] <sh1nji> a higher plane?
[21:28:53] <Jonn> It is.
[21:29:15] <Jonn> Robert Bruce explains that the astral plane is the closest dimension to the physical plane.
[21:29:29] <sh1nji> http://miburl.com/o2g2LE for those who want the book that was talked about >.>
[21:29:59] <sh1nji> doesnt it also kinda over lap in some places?
[21:30:20] <Jonn> It is intertwined with the physical
[21:30:29] <sh1nji> ah
[21:30:56] <Jonn> You see, it is where the our thoughts, memories, fantasies, dreams, etc. are contained
[21:31:08] <sh1nji> 0-o
[21:31:23] <sh1nji> m-m-my fantasies
[21:31:26] <sh1nji> ….
[21:31:29] <Jonn> It is like a huge mind-net that catches and holds the collective consciousness
[21:31:36] <jtbill> okay…..
[21:32:46] <Jonn> So, basically, it is a simpler dimension.
[21:33:06] <jtbill> 1
[21:33:52] <jtbill> using that definition, wouldn’t it be possible to go astral in all forms of the conscious?
[21:34:35] <Jonn> I will answer that in a minute
[21:34:44] <jtbill> okay, ill wait
[21:34:47] <Jonn> Thank you.
[21:34:55] <Jonn> I believe your question will get answered in the process.
[21:35:02] <Jonn> So, what is an astral projection then?
[21:35:32] <Jonn> If the astral is this dimension where things are simpler, what relevance does it has?
[21:36:03] <Jonn> To get to know the astral is important for other things (in my opinion) in psionics.
[21:36:13] <Jonn> Or in magic, for those interested in magic.
[21:36:31] <jtbill> is this an open question? or a rhetorical
[21:37:09] <Jonn> It rhetorical. I will be explicit when questions are for answering.
[21:37:21] <Jonn> !voice Dracogriff
[21:37:21] <jtbill> okay
[21:38:33] <Jonn> So, in my experience, an astral projection is when the energetic body (which is the equivalent of ourselves in the astral, also called astral body) is projected into this dimension and taken some conscience about it.
[21:39:43] <Jonn> While projecting, people report time distortion (hours seems like minutes, and minutes like hours), reality seems fluid, among other things.
[21:40:32] <Jonn> Now, what is the difference of an astral projection and an OBE? An OBE is a real-time projection.
[21:41:53] <Jonn> While in an astral projection, you could actually be projecting during a lucid dream, in an OBE you are fully conscious of both the separation of your physical self, and the consciousness still completely attached to the physical dimension.
[21:42:15] <Jonn> jtbill: Does that answers your question?
[21:42:29] <jtbill> sort of
[21:42:35] <Dracogriff> I heard that the astral planes are believed to be a gateway dimension between the physical plane and other planes and that is why it is considered a common starting point for projection, would you agree or disagree with that notion? (as for me, I am gathering more input before deciding)
[21:42:43] <Jonn> Should I elaborate on something specific to answer it?
[21:43:11] <jtbill> that explanation determined unconscious and conscious, what about subconscious?
[21:44:20] <Jonn> Dracogriff: It is believed that there are more planes, and in my experience, I concur. Since the astral dimension is the closest to the physical dimension which is where our consciousness is attached to, it makes sense to consider it a starting point.
[21:44:28] <Jonn> I would have to agree with such notion.
[21:45:24] <Jonn> jtbill: If you subconsciously drift to the astral plane, but your consciousness is attached to the physical, then I would say you are projecting.
[21:45:34] <Dracogriff> But then, this particular plane does have a fair bit of content to offer for those not ready to move on to higher planes, but which other planes have you reached from the astral planes?
[21:46:15] <jtbill> but that wouldn’t be a lucid dream, it would be completely unknowing
[21:46:37] <Jonn> Lets pause for a mintue while I answer questions.
[21:46:46] <Jonn> minute*
[21:47:24] <Dracogriff> And how many planes do the typical person and the typical psion or mage occupy simultaneously at most times?
[21:47:25] <Jonn> Dracogriff: In my experience, there are at least 4 dimensions. Physical < Astral < Ethereal < Energy
[21:47:36] <Dracogriff> what about mental?
[21:47:44] <Dracogriff> or angelic planes?
[21:47:51] <Jonn> Consider is the Ethereal plane, Draco.
[21:48:01] <Dracogriff> or what lies beyond that which is known?
[21:48:05] <Jonn> I dont believe in an angelic plane.
[21:48:09] <Dracogriff> Some do, I do not.
[21:48:17] <Jonn> Like I said, in my experience I recognize four dimensions.
[21:48:23] <Dracogriff> What about planes below the physical?
[21:48:28] <Dracogriff> ok
[21:48:45] <Jonn> Have you heard of the phrase “As above, so below”?
[21:48:55] <jtbill> i have now
[21:49:15] <Dracogriff> Yes, it is a common phrase in practices surrounding magick and meditation.
[21:49:39] <Jonn> In my experience, everyone below the (pure) energy dimension is a combination and a sum of all the previous planes.
[21:50:32] <Jonn> So, energy condenses from energy to thought, and that falls down together and mixes in the astral, until it materializes in the physical. And viceversa.
[21:50:46] <Jonn> Anyways, I will get back into topic.
[21:51:01] <Dracogriff> so, from an energetic standpoint, would that apply as well, whereas lower vibrations in energy are still as good as higher?
[21:51:02] <Jonn> Isealdor_: If you wish to participate, PM me.
[21:51:03] <Dracogriff> If so, why do people suggest aiming for higher vibrations?
[21:52:07] <Dracogriff> If not, then why?
[21:52:09] <Jonn> I believe that if we see planes like colors, energy and mental planes are the closest to basic colors. Below that, they mix. A higher vibration might mean to get closer to the source.
[21:52:17] <Jonn> Also
[21:52:59] <Jonn> In my experience, when people refer to higher or lower frequencies, they still are implicitly referencing astral plane forms.
[21:54:05] <Jonn> Not anything above it
[21:55:11] <Dracogriff> ah, so would I be wrong in assuming at this point that the astral plane is infinite in the range of frequencies as the universe is infinite in the range of distance?
[21:55:53] <jtbill> Jonn can i answer this?
[21:55:58] <Jonn> I will gradly ask your questions outside this class, seeing that they are getting a little bit on-topic.
[21:56:03] <Jonn> off-topic*
[21:56:12] <Jonn> jtbill: Go ahead.
[21:56:16] <Dracogriff> oh, sorry
[21:56:25] <Jonn> However, I will carry on after you answer.
[21:56:32] <Jonn> Id like to wrap this up.
[21:56:40] <Jonn> !voice sh1nji
[21:56:41] * sh1nji sighs
[21:57:00] <sh1nji> but we havnt even covered anything tho it went all off topic and stuffs
[21:57:05] <sh1nji> ;_;
[21:57:22] <jtbill> Draco, for size, think of the definition of a plane in Calculus, it is infinite in length and width, but, not in height, to make it 3 dimensional
[21:57:37] <jtbill> its a 2 dimensional object
[21:57:55] <jtbill> other planes can intersect, or occupy the same space, or be parallel
[21:59:06] <Jonn> sh1nji: I will wrap it up in a minute. I apologize for that.
[21:59:46] <sh1nji> ok…
[22:00:48] <Jonn> 1. The astral plane is the dimension closest to the physical, and it is simpler in terms of “laws” that govern it. (example, gravity doesnt applies, time is not rigid, etc.)
[22:01:16] <Jonn> 2. An astral projection is achieved when there is a projection of our astral body into the astral plane.
[22:01:53] <Jonn> 3. Projecting can be achieved in various ways (example: mindscape, through a lucid dream, etc)
[22:02:46] <Jonn> 4. An OBE is perceived as a real-time projection, where there is complete consciousness of the physical surroundings while in the astral body.
[22:03:06] <Jonn> !voice Dracogriff
[22:03:23] <Jonn> Does anyone has a question up to this point?
[22:03:30] <Jonn> Of what we have discussed, that is.
[22:03:33] <sh1nji> nope
[22:03:53] <jtbill> im good with those definitions
[22:04:20] <Jonn> Okay, good.
[22:04:45] <Jonn> Astral projections can be, with little practice, easy to achieve.
[22:05:06] <Jonn> I believe there are articles on that on the website, so please read them.
[22:05:49] <Jonn> In the case of an OBE, not so much. I have actively practiced OBEs for years and Ive only managed to have 3 that I remember.
[22:06:16] <Dracogriff> why are they hard to remember?
[22:06:54] <Jonn> I believe it has to do with the fact that the body is in the borderline between deep asleep and some degree of consciousness
[22:07:31] <Jonn> Keeping that control to stay conscious is hard. But remembering dreams is hard too. Its a matter of practice, if you ask me.
[22:08:52] <Jonn> So, how to practice OBEs? Keep a journal. A journal will help you find patterns of your practice. What you do when you fall asleep to soon, and what you do when you succeed in something
[22:09:23] <Jonn> A journal will also help you to remember things for longer periods after you wake up. It is a helpful tool.
[22:09:40] <Jonn> !voice sh1nji
[22:09:49] <sh1nji> >.> god damned internet
[22:10:02] <Jonn> I will copy/paste what you missed in PM.
[22:10:22] <Jonn> With that said, I will attend one more round of questions.
[22:10:31] <Jonn> Anyone?
[22:10:45] <DragonAtma> not from me.
[22:11:04] <jtbill> i have one just figuring out how to word it
[22:11:34] <Jonn> Anyone else besides jtbill?
[22:11:43] <jtbill> ill put this one down then for discussion
[22:11:46] <Forge> whats the question
[22:12:09] <Jonn> Forge: The question is if anyone has a question 😛
[22:12:22] <Forge> what seperates the planes of existence
[22:13:07] <jtbill> would going into the astral, due to it being a simpler place and one made of thought, memories etc. would that be a good place to meditate in, or to find answers?
[22:13:09] <Jonn> I dont have an answer for that, nor does science so far. However, I acknowledge it.
[22:14:39] <Jonn> jtbill: Since the premise of the astral plane is that it holds the collective thoughts, it is safe to presume that answers can be found there. However, meditation something you do in the physical to reach some mental state.
[22:14:52] <Jonn> meditation is something*
[22:15:32] <Jonn> Any other question?
[22:16:27] <Jonn> Aight. I hope Ive helped to clear up any doubts regarding astral, OBEs and their differences.
[22:16:28] <jtbill> I’m good
[22:16:54] <Dracogriff> My current question is unrelated.
[22:16:57] <Jonn> Thank you for assisting. If you want to discuss a specific topic for the next class, PM me.
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